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The Western Canon Mailing List
Moderator: Paul John Barnette Jr.
Activation Date: March 8, 1997
Current Date:  August 11, 1997
Current Membership: 97
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Questions that might be productive on Machiavelli (re. your email of
8/9) seem to me to be:  "expedient" for what purpose, "succeed" for
what purpose?

Mach. says that the Prince should be just until that does not "work" &
when that happens he must be prepared to be "not good" to achieve the
primary end which is the security & continuance of the state.  At the
root of his treatise is his opinion of the "nature of man".  Certainly,
in this regard his opinion was that man was not to be trusted as he
would sooner live with the death of his father than the loss of his
patrimony.  If that is true ( & he is in good company in this view. 
Even Aristotle wrote of the "depravity of man", ThePolitics, Bk. 2, 
chap.5) then, if one concedes that security is one of the ends of the 
state, one must support Mach. in his expediency argument.

As a possible afterthought, one may ask if it is possible to lead any
large institution without being just a little bit Machiavellian. 
Certainly, our Founding Fathers were as was Lincoln.  Aren't we glad
they used means that were "unjust" when the end was the creation &
security of the Union?  

Is it possible we get so angry with Machiavelli because he was so
straight forward & direct about the way the world works.  "If men were
angels, no government would be necessary."  Wasn't that or something
like that in The Federalist papers?  And if they were angels, 
Machiavelli would not be necessary.

Pete Thigpen   

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